In this interview, Glen Hodgson discusses the future of work, from AI and remote work to changing expectations around the traditional 9-to-5 and the challenges facing Europe’s labour markets.
About the Guest
Glen Hodgson is the founder of Free Trade Europa and Freelance Movement, and the author of WORK, RECONSTRUCTED. He is a writer and commentator on European labour markets, technology, and the future of work.
Interview
Simon Sarevski: We have been talking about the “future of work” for years now. But with the pandemic, remote work, AI and demographic change, it has become much harder to keep our eyes closed to it. What is really changing, and what do we fundamentally misunderstand about it?
Glen Hodgson: The future is always being created and things are moving faster and faster. People are demanding more freedom and flexibility as to when, where and how they earn money. The traditional 9 to 5 is increasingly less attractive for an increasing number of people, while fractional careers are also on the rise.
What do these changes mean for the individual worker? And, on the other hand, what do they mean for the firm trying to stay competitive?
Glen Hodgson: For workers, a great deal is changing, particularly due to the advent of AI. This is a theme that I cover in my new book “The Future of Human Work.” Individuals need to understand and align with new technologies and use it to their advantage: if not their skills — and as a result the value that they have on the labour market — will diminish. If workers ignore technology there is a risk that they will become irrelevant. At the same time, companies need to adopt technology and AI. Sadly their starting point is often the twin aims of cutting costs and reducing headcount. This is the wrong approach and not a starting point for success.
—Related: Steve Davies on automation and the future of work—
Is the traditional 9-to-5 employment model becoming obsolete, or are we simply seeing more flexibility around it?
Glen Hodgson: The 9 to 5 is not dying out completely. Some people still value this. Yet there is an increasing percentage of the population who want increased freedom, flexibility and choice. To attract the best talent companies and organisations will need to adapt to this reality.
Remote work opens the doors to markets that know no boundaries. Has access to the global labor market been mainly a boon for low-income countries, potentially at the expense of richer ones, or is there more nuance to the story?
Glen Hodgson: There is a larger pool of talent for companies to choose from, and there are more opportunities for talent to find opportunities without needing to leave their home country. This is a benefit, but talent cannot compete on price alone. There is a huge demand for sophisticated services, knowledge and experience that workers from rich countries are able to meet too.
Could remote work do to labor markets what the internet did to information markets – a dramatic reduction in the importance of geography?
Glen Hodgson: Absolutely. These are themes that we cover in “WORK, RECONSTRUCTED”. Yet at the same time that digital services are growing, the value of face to face communication and physical connections is growing. Being in a hub where talent congregates is still important and the eco-system where you live and work is still important.
As work becomes more flexible, automated and less tied to a particular place, what does “good work” actually look like in the modern world?
Glen Hodgson: Good work is having the freedom and flexibility to earn money in different ways and find a workstyle that is tailored to your individual needs and wants. Moreover, finding something that you enjoy which gives you purpose is equally important.
The nature of work is changing rapidly, while many of the institutions preparing people for it — particularly education — have changed much more slowly. How should young people navigate this changing world?
Glen Hodgson: This is a great point, and very true. Reskilling and upskilling is increasingly the responsibility of the individual. We cannot wait for companies, the state or universities to give us what we want or what the market is requiring.
We’ve talked about workers and firms. What does all of this mean for governments? How should governments help people adapt to these changes?
Glen Hodgson: The government should stay out of the way as much as possible. History clearly shows that it does not do a great job of prescribing the future. Often it creates barriers and slows down progress, regardless of how well-intentioned its initiatives are. Over-regulation is a continued problem, particularly in Europe.
Europe has been plagued by a lack of competitiveness and productivity. Does Europe primarily have a labor-market problem, a productivity problem, or a regulatory problem?
Glen Hodgson: It has all three, but much of this stems from the third element and the excessive regulation. This creates too many bureaucratic hurdles for workers and companies, while adding too many costs. Talent is dissuaded from coming up with new ideas as a result. We see the difference when compared with the US where entrepreneurship and taking risks are respected and flourish.
——Related: Kristian Niemietz on regulation and stagnation——
We often talk about free trade in terms of cheaper goods, economic growth, and jobs lost to it. Has the way we think about free trade failed to catch up with the way the economy itself has changed?
Glen Hodgson: We also should include the free flow of ideas and the benefits of trade as a tide that raises all boats. So often today, the narrative focuses on negativity and stories of how local economies and workers lose out. It has never been – and never will be – a zero sum game.
——Related: Eamonn Butler on the case for free trade——
As the world of work changes rapidly, governments seem much slower to adapt. What happens when regulation designed for yesterday’s labor market is applied to tomorrow’s?
Glen Hodgson: We continue to put a round peg in a square hole and the economy, workers and companies lose out as a result. Our regulation in Europe is designed for a labour market of the 1950s and the idea of a job is still rooted in a bygone past. This needs to change if we are to facilitate opportunities and harness growth for the future.
Understanding the world is one thing; living in it is another. What books would you recommend to readers who want to do both a little better?
Glen Hodgson: I am generally not a fan of business books. I would advise anyone to instead invest their time in reading the classics. Look at the works of Dostoevsky or F. Scott Fitzgerald as well as Homer for a start. As relevant and insightful today as ever.
Finally, our recurring question at Strixly: how do you find freedom in an unfree world?
Glen Hodgson: Freedom is a personal paradise which is different for everyone but like fresh air and money it is difficult to have too much of it. You find it be exploring, comparing and contrasting situations and making changes until you find the freedom that you are searching for.